I'll post my notes here. I probably won't try to liveblog it. So far, the pre-game show is that moderators will try to "fact-check" the candidates, which is media-speak for trying to help Clinton like Candy Crowley helped Obama with Benghazi. It turned out that Crowley was wrong, and Obama was wrong, and Romney was right. So my advice is to ignore any instant fact-checks as presumptively biased. Look it up yourself.
Overall conclusion: Hillary scored a few points, but Trump won solidly. There was some substance but less than I would have liked. More details below the fold.
UPDATE: Patterico points out that Hillary had a bit of a neurological event. I missed this because I wasn't watching the video feed when it happened. I had a suspicion it might have because the "WHOO! OKAY!" line reminded me of the "iced chai" comment; it looks to me like she felt something coming and couldn't entirely suppress it so she tried to mask it.
Watch and judge for yourself.
If the best medical support teams can't get her to function on stage for 90 minutes without a malfunction, maybe her warranty has expired and she needs to be replaced with the latest model.
Hillary's opening statement is a mess.
Profit sharing -- mandatory government merits?
"Wealthy pay their fair share" -- like the Clintons?
Jobs in lots of things without saying HOW.
"Clean energy" jobs like... Solyndra.
Trump's opening statement:
We're losing our good jobs. True. Solution?
Agree on family leave and childcare?!?!?! Jesus, Trump.
Jobs are being stolen again.
Both candidates are saying things suck. Hillary is the status quo candidate though. Trump says he'll cut taxes and renegotiate trade deals. Good. First "how" in the debate came from him.
Hillary calls that plan trickle-down economics. Remember how Reagan's policies worked out? Went great for his terms.
Trump responds: "She's been doing this for years, and this is where we ended up"
Hillary is falling back on argument by authority... using as her authority anonymous "experts". She wants to power every home with solar panels. Independent experts have already examined the solar idea and proven that it's literally impossible.
Trump responses with "I am a believer in all forms of energy" and attacks the debt. (Not just the deficit).
Wants incentives to expand and hits the "You've been doing this for 30 years" point again. It's a good point.
Hillary's got the pill rolling hand motions going.
Trump has got a great skeptical expression and hits Hillary on TPP. Hillary's got the vocal timbre telltale of a liar in her response.
Now the moderator was trying to move on and Clinton is just giving a 5 minute speech about the front page of her website.
Hillary: "I don't think top-down works in America." She's right, except she's lying. She's talking about and advocating for top-down policies in practically the same breath. And she has the gall to keep punching Reagan by attacking trickle-down; anyone who lived under Reagan understands that his policies did work and work well.
Trump is asked about his tax returns, makes the audit claim again, and points to the election disclosure records, names his income level.
Betting the next question for Hillary is about her health, or maybe the Clinton Foundation. (would have lost that bet)
Moderator tries to fact check by saying the IRS audit doesn't prevent release of tax returns. (He's right, it doesn't; but it doesn't mean releasing them is smart).
Trump promises to release his tax returns when Clinton releases her 30,000 deleted emails. Crowd goes wild.
Hillary says Trump paid zero income tax. Same thing Reid tried. If she knows and isn't lying, how does she know? Corruption.
Best response question should be: what is it you are hiding with your email server, Hillary? And when will you release your health records?
Trump: That was not a mistake, that was done purposefully. When you have your staff taking the 5th... I think it's disgraceful.
"It's time the country had someone running it who knows something about money" and hits the debt again. Good points.
Question on race relations. Hillary says race determines where people live, the quality of their education, etc, etc. She's wrong. And she calls for gun control. "Gun epidemic", but cites only the african-american men.
Trump: We need law and order. Thank you, Trump.
Moderator tries to fact-check Trump and fails on stop-and-frisk. Trump knows what happened in the case not just the Supreme Court headline. It's still a bad policy but the fact check attempt backfired and revealed media bias.
Hillary panders to black people and says the justice system is systemically biased, and calls for gun control again. Another "military style" claim, ie, the assault weapon bans. Comprehensive background checks, no-due-process watchlists, etc. She's endorsed every gun control proposal in the book short of a complete ban.
Takeaway: Trump wants law and order and Trump has all the police endorsements.
Trump endorses the terror watchlist point, but does make a nod to due process. We're going to get the law either way I think. (Doesn't mean I like).
Moderator asks about the birth certificate thing. Trump comes back with Blumenthal and says he succeeded in getting Obama to provide his birth certificate. And then goes his economy and speech.
Moderator tries to fact-check. Bias is showing.
Hillary goes full-on attack mode for the birther thing. She's trying to say it means he's racist. Remember, Hillary, you started it. In a fair world, with an honest media, this would blow up in her face.
Hillary brings up housing lawsuits. Trump has a great response, saying the lawsuit was settled without any admission of guilt and pointing to a club he built without discrimination.
Hillary gets a question about cybersecurity. This is laughable. She knows nothing and is demonstrably incompetent in this field.
My god. Hillary threatens to go to war with Russia over hacking attacks and then says Trump is unfit for office.
Lots of talk about ISIS. None of it substantive. Except Hillary attacks Trump for saying he opposed the war when he supported it. I don't know who's right on that, but I know Trump was a private citizen at the time and Hillary was a Senator who voted to invade Iraq. (I thought that was the right decision at the time, but she's got a lot of gall to attack him for this when she is guilty of the same thing and was in a position of public trust at the time).
Trump has a really good response to the Iraq thing that I can't summarize. Moderator leaps in and tries to fact check on the war on Iraq. Showing bias again. I don't care who is right on this, moderators should get the hell out of the way and stop trying to ambush or correct the candidates. Let the candidates talk.
Trump is doing a good job shutting him down, but he keeps trying.
Hillary claims credit for the Iran nuclear "agreement" that doesn't exist. That'll blow up in her face with a mushroom cloud.
Trump has a strong response that, again, can't be summarized.
Hillary reassures other nations that we will honor our mutual defense treaties. This may be the only point she actually wins in the debate. Trump was talking about insisting NATO members contribute financially for our defense (which is a fair point) but the mutual defense treaties are important and should be honored.
This entry was published Mon Sep 26 21:42:47 CDT 2016 by TriggerFinger
and last updated 2016-09-27 09:03:11.0.